I wrote this a while back and the truth is my experience with rednecks is rather limited. So please, any rednecks out there, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this:
There is an ongoing feud between rednecks and leftists concerning racism and blacks and, being neither of those myself, I'd like to provoke some thought on the matter.
Both groups have been guilty of using poor English, flinging personal epithets and selectively citing facts.
Rednecks, though lacking scholarly research to back up their claims, have an overall negative impression of blacks - but (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I don't recall seeing one paint all blacks with the same brush. In other words, even the most "racist" redneck will concede that there are some decent blacks out there. Therefore, technically speaking, the above negative impressions cannot be characterized as stereotypes but rather generalizations. Those generalizations (criminality, impulsiveness, hyper-sexuality, lower intelligence, materialism and lack of altruism) are accurate on a group level and there is much research to back them up. But rednecks are ignorant of that research, relying instead upon tradition and personal experience. In this sense, a person can be both ignorant and right at the same time - but, since the media is heavily leftist controlled, rednecks are assumed to be both ignorant and wrong. This is the message that is pounded into the heads of the masses through all major media outlets. This non-stop onslaught of propaganda serves to inflame the racialist attitudes of rednecks; it is natural to become angry when your rulers and their media puppets persistently contradict something you hold as self-evident. Hence the angry outbursts and the heavy use of invectives by rednecks - which further strengthens leftist claims that the former are ignorant and wrong.
As for leftists, neither the weight of science nor Anecdotal Evidence is on their side. What they do have on their side is the entire weight of government, well-funded private institutions, institutes of education and the media. Countless movies, TV shows, magazine articles and official literature parrot the message that to be a racial egalitarian is to be enlightened but to acknowledge racial differences in behavior and I.Q. is to be ignorant - and wrong. The main line of defense, for a leftist, is to ignore the obvious. He will say things like "whites date blacks, Asians date whites... it's all the same, one big mishmash because it really doesn't matter". He ignores the fact that there are clear patterns within inter-racial dating. He ignores the almost total absence of Asian male/ black female couples. He ignores the fact that around 80% of black/ white couples involve black men and white woman. He ignores evidence that neither poverty nor white racism is to blame for high levels of black crime. He ignores the fact that white women are being targeted, by blacks, for rape at astounding levels while black women are rarely targeted by whites. He ignores deliberate government deception when it comes to crime statistics. He will not read any of the numerous scholarly books documenting racial differences. From the word "ignore" we get "ignorance". Not just ignorance but willful ignorance. Yes, it is possible to be trendy, "enlightened", cultured, educated - and wrong.
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Question: If a redneck picks up some books and replaces his gut feelings about race with solid science - does he then cease being a "redneck"?* Also, I'll add that I have a great deal of admiration for the self-reliant breed of people called "rednecks".
ReplyDelete*If you're taking this question too seriously, go take a few swigs of moonshine and then come back and read it again.
Well I'm not a redneck but I have been to the South. From what I understand many white Southerners aren't all that anti-black and aren't hostile to blacks. I know they have white neghborhoods and black neighborhoods in some areas but that doesn't necessarily mean a negative view of blacks.
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between blacks and whites in the SOuth is complex and doesn't fall into the categories of being either racist or anti-racist. Many white people seem to like living amongst white people and blacks with blacks but the communities seem to be on friendly terms in many areas. There seems to be communication and fun happening between the groups.
I am really uncomfortable with the fact that recognizing differences among races encourages some people to develope hostility for the groups that are sen as different.
A lot of people seem to have these notions about rednecks that lack nuances, the truth is is that the nuances are important.
I've lived in the South for about 5 years now. Yes, the neighborhoods are pretty much separated, but it seems that things are more relaxed regarding race issue than they are out west.
ReplyDeleteI think the very best way to describe things here is: you know where you stand.
You may be familiar with the book "Black Rednecks" by Thomas Sowell; it's a collection of essays, one of which was used as the book title.
ReplyDeleteSowell, who is a conservative but dislikes Southern culture, believes African-Americans learned their culture from Southerners. Among its characteristics:
--Strong group identity, belief in its exceptionalism, and distrust of outsiders
--Anti-intellectualism
--Acceptance of violence
--Charismatic, non-introspective religion
I agree that the two have just about everything in common, including mutual dislike. It's way too bad that they've been allowed to define the two ends of the political spectrum. The rest of us could probably solve 80% of our socio-political issues if those two groups were excluded from voting.
Actually I read the book a while back and did find it intriguing.
ReplyDeleteIf we eliminated the South, our overall obesity rates would drop, while our rates of educational attainment would rise. Perhaps the numbers for Americans look so bad because of the South.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, back to race. I always get so annoyed when I hear leftists dismiss racially conscious whites such as myself as "ignorant," "uneducated," and "insular." They constantly claim that if only we ignorant whites had more contact and friendships with non-whites, then we would become racially "enlightened." The problem with this argument is that it presumes non-whites must all be these wonderful, lovable people. After all, they must be angels if having regular contact with them would erase all "racist" attitudes, right? Wrong!
I think it is precisely because of intimate contact with non-whites that many whites become race realists. They now from personal experience that non-whites aren't the wonderful saints that leftists make them out to be. I came of age in the Bay Area (California) during the 21st Century. The majority of people I knew in Middle and High School were non-white. In my friend group in high school, I was the only white person (Now, you might ask why I had such a friend group in the first place. Well, it's a long story!). As a result, I'm a white racialist.
By the way, I like the blog. I also comment every now and then at American Renaissance. I don't agree with all of Jared Taylor's views (particularly his emphasis on racial biology/science), but I applaud Amren for what it's done.
Very true. My early experiences with "diversity", during childhood, planted the seeds for later racial awareness as well.
ReplyDeleteAs a "redneck" I found comments 4 & 5 to be rather amusing. Frank's comment was amusing because he was relying on a book written by a black economist eager to ingratiate himself to New England liberals by blaming black dysfunction on southern whites. And SCW's comment was amusing because I'd like nothing more than to follow up on his recommendation to remove the south from the union. :)
ReplyDeleteThe article and other comments were well enough I suppose. Including SCW's after he got past his obligatory swipe at the south.
Fred, if you find the Black Redneck link "amusing", could you cite examples of black dysfunctional behavior that aren't more similar to Southern than Norther white behavior?
ReplyDeleteI'm a great admirer of the South myself. Still it seems to me there are aspects of Southern culture that might be described as less than desirable. I suspect that some of those traits might be the result of "reconstruction" and the decades of cultural oppression that followed. Every culture has its strengths and weaknesses. American blacks really do seem to have picked up the negative aspects of Southern culture (or "Scott/Irish" culture according to Sowell) and exaggerated them. Along with their overall low I.Q. and high testosterone levels, this ended up being a deadly cocktail.
ReplyDeleteOf course, some of those "negative" traits can be positive ones, depending on the context. A willingness to fight, for example.
In retrospect, perhaps I should not have used the term "redneck" in the original post. I was trying to describe simple white people who have a general dislike for blacks, based almost entirely on attitudes they picked up as kids. These white people smoke cigarettes, drink a lot of beer, cuss a lot, get in trouble with the law and litter a lot. But they also can fix their own cars and know how to fight. They are found all over the country and I've known them. They are not necessarily Southerners.
FrankBD-
ReplyDeleteOne of the reviews for this book on Amazon gave a nice retort so I'll quote.
The main problem with this thesis, aside from the fact that it is yet another attempt to blame everything on the South, is that these pathologies did not manifest until the northern migration. Gangs, disintegrating families, epidemic drug and alcohol abuse, rampant illegitimacy all occurred after Blacks moved north and were plugged into the welfare state. Part of the reason Blacks are returning South is that they are more comfortable there, have more in common with white Southerners than hypocritical yankees, and fit comfortably into a culture of faith. At least he is trying to look out of the box....but blaming ANYBODY at this stage of the game is not part of the solution. Its the problem.
First of all, "redneck" is not a color-based descriptor. It is an culture based descriptor. Secondly, there are more rednecks in the inner city of Detroit and LA than there are in the South. OJ Simpson is the biggest redneck on the planet.
ReplyDeleteThomas Sowell is not right. Blacks don't get their culture from white rednecks. Instead, white rednecks get it from blacks. And all of them got it as a byproduct of the harmful effects of revolutionary Marxist leftism, liberalism and progressivism being imposed on our culture.
Group think, tribalism, retaliation, emotion driven, irresponsible and immoral, self-indulgent, lacking social skills... sociopathic behaviors. These are the hallmarks of the redneck.
The redneck demands respect while disregarding the feelings of others. The redneck does not restrain anger. The redneck does not consider consequences or self-defeating outcomes.
I've lived in the South now for 30 years combined. I can predict with near 100 percent accuracy how a redneck of any color will behave in a given situation. That's how I know I'm right.
Jonathan-
ReplyDeleteLet's cut to the chase. "Redneck" is mostly a slur used to denigrate various kinds of whites similar to the way the word "nigger" is used to denigrate blacks. Now, some use it to insult poor, rural whites regardless of which part of the country they live. While others use it specifically to denigrate southerners.
That was clearly the intent of your comment. And you phrased it to elicit an emotional response. And I'm more than happy to give you one. Are you ready?
boo hoo hoo *sniff*
Now, is that the one you predicted? :)
The two words are actually interchangable. That's the irony of it all.
ReplyDeleteI merely echo your posting a few items up, in the snippet of the Amazon book review. The Northern migration of blacks is exactly where they began to become plugged into the Marxist thought stream.
No, your reaction was definitely unpredictable. I'm not sure of your meaning on that one.
My point is this:
When the white out-of-wedlock birth rate in 2010 exceeds the black OOW birth rate of 1910 by a factor of many times, you have clear evidence of the fact that our culture is deteriorating rapidly because of the delitrious effects of Progressivism-Marxism.
The two words are actually interchangable. That’s the irony of it all.
ReplyDeleteYou may use them interchangably. But I don't use them at all. Regardless, I have no objection to denouncing irresponsible behavior. My objection was to the implication that southerners practice irresponsible behaviors at significantly higher rates than others. That's just too "Stephen Fowler" for my tastes.
You just did use them.
ReplyDeleteYour objection would be more appropriately directed to Poster #5, whose comment about educational attainment and the South is merely leftist dogma regurgitated. My statement about the OOW birthrate said nothing about Southerners specifically.
Leftist philosophy creates rednecks, if rednecks can be defined as uneducated, emotion driven, frustrated, amoral puppets of ANY COLOR, not just white.
...yes, this leftism of the elite, upper crust ivory tower types in the big urban centers of insulated knowledge, preaching entitlements and an unrestrained statism.
Rednecks are the centerpiece of Marxism in America, the end result of many generations of progressivism's march through our institutions.
So, anyone who represents the fruition of progressive dreams... that's the definition of a redneck.
Leftists decry anything resistant to the agenda of progressivism as "redneck".
ReplyDeleteThat agenda being the complete undoing of the Western World, with all it's associated social, economic and religious underpinnings, exhibited most powerfully during the millineum between the Dark Ages to the colonial period.
So, to a leftist, the following things are redneck:
Religious traditions rooted in human weakness and absolute dependence upon God;
Monogamous male-female marriage; Parental authority over offspring; the family as a social unit, private property ownership; economic competition; individual self-determinism; individual development in accordance with individual desire.
In other words, anything that works against the idea of the state, controlled by elites, being supreme in all areas of human existence.
And that's the problem of so many conservatives... they don't understand this at the deepest level. And they don't understand how they manifest progressive tendencies in themselves as a result of living in a contaminated society.
And so, that's why people like the Amish truly represent the antithesis of redneck behaviour. Because they represent pure conservative ideals.
I used them in the context of this discussion. I don't use them in every day converstaion.
ReplyDeleteApparently, you've creating a new definition for "redneck" somewhat akin to "proletariat". There is always confusion in redefining an existing term.
I mostly agree with your political points. And I agree the lower classes are not the driving forces of marxism. Populism has always been popular but it's a different thing from marxism. And the lower classes lack the capacity to promote either. They merely eat the crumbs that fall their way.
I don't think marxists care about the poor or social justice as much as the idea of the poor and social justice. They just don't strike me as the Mother Theresa types. Most of them tend to be more along the lines of elitists and wealthy trust fund babies who would actually cringe at the thought of rubbing shoulders with the great unwashed masses they claim to champion. My best guess is that they are so detached from where the rubber meets the road that they can believe robin hood fairy tales without repercussions.
I'm not attempting to redefine "redneck", Fred, in post #9 and 10. Beyond the issue of applying the term to any one of any color who behaves like a redneck, just as Thomas Sowell does.
ReplyDeleteI attempted to describe how the LEFT redefines "redneck" as anything that isn't progressive left. Hence, they call the Tea Party movement "a bunch of tea bagging rednecks."
And I described the Left of being the chief breeder of rednecks, through foolish philosophies that result in immorality, ignorance and social dysfunction.
In your first post, you referenced your respect for those "self reliant people called rednecks." Who classifies self-reliance as "redneck" except for progressives?
When I grew up, a "redneck" was a term someone didn't want to live up to. And the term was only applied to white people who acted like (the dreaded N word).
I’m not attempting to redefine “redneck”
ReplyDeleteBut you did.
just as Thomas Sowell does
That's not exactly what Sowell was doing.
I attempted to describe how the LEFT redefines “redneck”
Ok.
And I described the Left of being the chief breeder of rednecks
Ok.
In your first post, you referenced your respect for those “self reliant people called rednecks.”
That was jay's post.
When I grew up, a “redneck” was a term someone didn’t want to live up to.
I suppose that depends on when and where one grew up. As well as who is using it and how they're using it. My impression is that some people refer to themselves as "rednecks" simply out of opposition to those who use it to describe those whom they don't like.
Did you see on Steve Sailer's blog the test scores of non-Hispanic white 4th and 8th graders in reading and math? The LOWEST 2009 8th grade math scores (for NH whites):
ReplyDeleteWest Virginia
Mississippi
Alabama
Kentucky
Hawaii
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Louisiana
Arkansas
Rhode Island
This doesn't exactly argue that white southern culture isn't anti-intellectual.
Frank-
ReplyDeleteMaybe so. But it still took you 10 days to come up with that snappy comeback.
Still, there's no arguing with facts. There is, however, arguing with reasons. And simply dismissing the rankings as the result of an "anti-intellectual culture" without more evidence or explanation is premature.
But since these numbers come from Sailer's blog I'll remind you of his own conclusions as to "What did we learn?"
I'm not terribly sure, either. Who knows enough about what goes on within the educational establishments of all the states to know whether these numbers make sense?
Though I'm certainly open to discussing it further. I have a number of speculations but that's all they would be, speculations.
Lo and Behold! I just ran across this article on Amren. Do you think nonsense like this might have something to do with it?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2010/03/mayor_vetoes_sc.php